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Isaiah Harms
Buccaneer's Brotherhood
Rogue Templars
3
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Posted - 2012.04.01 18:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Gentlemen, let's cut the bullcrap.
Yes. The Drake will ALWAYS be a tanky ship. But only for shields. Every other Tier 2 BC can effectively trade between armor/shield to increase tank or DPS. Drake cannot make this switch.
You're all excited about the Drake's DPS bonus. Well I guess you're fleet workers where DPS is all that matters because your Logistics will save the paper Drake.
For 0.0 alliances getting rid of the 5% resistance per level is a good thing. Which is why they're manipulating these changes. For wormholers or lowsecurity dwellers who have to make do will limited numbers - this further imbalances the game.
HOWEVER this comparison concerns me:
Amarr ships have a GREAT armor tank with adequate weapon systems.
Minmatar have good DPS and fast ships that can transverse against the low tracking of Amarr weaponry.
Gallente have good DPS at close range (and with the nullbuff that's not so close anymore). Good speed. Good agility, and a bonus to armor repair that is very highly effective!
Caldari have.......
Pathetic DPS. Delayed DPS. Their only racial counter is range. Which places the Caldari once again into blob warfare tactics where they must be supported by other players in other ships in order to be effective.
Dropping the 5% shield resistance bonus now makes this tactic necessary for PVE.
Not impressed CCP. Not at all. |
Isaiah Harms
Buccaneer's Brotherhood
Rogue Templars
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 03:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Lets look at New Drake.
[Drake, New]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
This fit using the new stats gets 69,933 EHP does DPS out to 570 DPS 30km 465 out to 45km with selectable Damage. Oh and before you mention delay, it's delay at maximum range is six seconds.
So with about as much EHP and more Missile DPS then a Focus Pulse Lasers do on a Harbinger with MF and more tank then can be fit with Heavy Pulse, while being faster and more agile with the option of more range and a damage type selection beyond EM...
What is you and the 3 people who liked your posts problem with this ship. It looks, feels and rides like an average Brawler Battlecruiser built for small gang work.
Ok.. Let me teach you something. YOU ARE A DRAKE. Drakes SHIELD tank. In other words your targets are not shooting Barrage or Hail at you. We're going to shoot you with EM heavy ordnance. Now... Please adjust your EFT or EVE HQ to purely EM dps and see what your "typical brawler" battlecruiser's tank looks like.
Yeah.. much lower. Now.. 2nd point. I believe I did say the Drake will always be able to carry a good tank. Go back up to my post and read that.
3rd point: I did not say the new Drake will be bad at PVP. Quite the converse: They'll OWN other battlecruiser gangs because of excellent damage PROJECTION and now a DPS increase. However they'll only do this if they have time to deploy that DPS.
In other words these Drakes will be great for the teams that run around with 2-3 scimitars - Which brings me to my last point: The Drake is only becoming a better FLEET ship. Much like every other Caldari ship.
P.S. 570 dps out of your "GANK" Drake is pathetic too. Gank BC's do more like 700-800. Try again. |
Isaiah Harms
Buccaneer's Brotherhood
Rogue Templars
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:
That isn't the Prophecy. Its the Damnation.
Is it? The skin is different then the current and we haven't seen the V3 Skins for ether the Prophecy or the Damnation. Do you think this is the new Damnation skin?
I would think an EFT warrior like you would know the Prophecy has ONE launcher hardpoint. Damnation has 5.
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Isaiah Harms
Buccaneer's Brotherhood
Rogue Templars
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 12:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Yes Caldari doesn't have Paper DPS Hammers but that is more Gallente's thing and you don't need them in a small gang it is just a different style, a good tank with good DPS is fine and 570 DPS is fine.
New Drake is fine for Brawling and Small Gangs.
Those "Paper DPS Hammers" known as Brutix's will tank 519dps (890 overloaded) with 38k EHP
Null DPS 511 (541 overloaded)
Since your fit uses a web and warp scrambler that means you're fighting at the Gallente's optimal where it can web and scramble and move in close. So let's use Void
Void DPS 624 (694 overloaded)
As for attempting to "range tank the Brutix" It can move out at 1488 m/s. A bit faster than your Drake. By the way, it's capacitor will last 6 minutes with overloaded reps.
Have fun with those Paper DPS Hammers! My fit doesn't even use damage mods!
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Isaiah Harms
Buccaneer's Brotherhood
Rogue Templars
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 14:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
You sir are making the critical mistake.
You are judging a ship based upon the OTHER ships around it. Again... requiring the Drake (and other Caldari ships) to be gang/fleet ships.
But since you want to run 5v5...
I see no reason why 3 Brutix's vs 5 Drakes will have any trouble tearing your gang apart. Since 3 Brutix's will throw out 2082 dps each of your Drakes is going to last 27 seconds.
Your Drakes put out 2850 dps minus the 890 local tank of each Brutix = 1960 dps to your overall gang. However I am doing this with just 3 ships to your 5. And since repping is a nice way to buy time in gang warfare let's say my 2 Guardians jump the gate.
Now to put it politely you're screwed. Yes two of your Drakes will escape as I cannot hold all five there. Sorry if we make this a 6v6 I'll bring an Arazu. 
I'm not the one grasping at straws. You're logic is flawed when you must hide it among the dynamic variances of "gang warfare."
Now I wondered how a pilot like you can have such a fantastically limited grasp of PVP to base the judgements you've made. That's when I realized you're in Red vs Blue.
Before you begin lecturing the global EVE community about how a ship's buff/nerfs affect us (most of us don't bother to laugh at you on the forums) please consider that there'sa BIGGER world of pvp'ers who do not live in a mutual wardec of epic noobery.
For instance: You haven't factored in the affect of sentry fire. So you've completely excluded lowsec PVP from your equation. Which I find highly odd as lowsec sees more pvp than anywhere else.... and it's very proficient pvp too.
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Comparing an active tank ship to a buffer tank ship the active tank will win most of the time in a 1v1.
Yes I was being nice. The repps actually gimp the DPS abilities of a Brutix. If you want I'll setup a "Gang Brutix" that will do even more DPS with more buffer as it can rely upon it's other gang mates (the two Guardians) to stay alive. Oh and your Drakes will pop much faster 
Has it occurred to you yet that we're comparing a Tier 1 BC gang to a Tier 2 BC gang? And even if you choose to put 2 Scimitars in your gang I still win out of shear DPS. Oh... and don't forget my Brutix's at current state can field 15 EC-600's so your potential logistics are going to be hurting. |
Isaiah Harms
Buccaneer's Brotherhood
Rogue Templars
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 15:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Oh and the bolded... no. The overheat won't put you up 370.
Hmmm.. So when you EFT'd this you just overloaded the reppers? Why did you forget to overload the explosive hardener?
This is why I think you need a bit more actual PVP experience.
Because unlike you, good pvp'ers plug their explosive / electromagnetic hull. A pretty fit on EFT doesn't translate to actual in-game effectiveness. |
Isaiah Harms
Buccaneer's Brotherhood
Rogue Templars
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 16:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:
So you are exploring every available option for your Gang but not the other way around to prove a point. Pulling fictional numbers like 890 Omni Active Tank and not looking at the whole picture. Multiple Drake Webs for instance puts Rage Missiles in play with heat you can reach 750 DPS for one thing. Or having long points fitted on your buffer ships cuts there speed.
Long points = warp disruptors. They do not affect MWD's or AB's. Scramblers kill MWD. But now you're playing my game again. I just cited a real easy fleet that I could counter your fleet.
Alara IonStorm wrote:
You jump so quickly against the Drake and rely on situation where your gang is guaranteed a win without the Drake Gang using counter tactics that are effective for it. You don't take into account Field positioning, or chasing the primary which is a major, major factor in Gallente Warfare.
I do take that into consideration mate. But your cookie cutter Drake has no nanos. However neither does my cookie cutter Brutix. Want to play the nano game? I do it all the time.
With a 6 minute capacitor (oh! and two guardians supplying energy) I think I have plenty of speed/capacitor.
Alara IonStorm wrote:
All this you wrote is smoke an mirrors when there are Support Ships that can counter your support, Nano Drake Fits that can kite and so on. Combat is way to fluid for your limited example theory crafting and someone so intent on questioning my experience should know this. But the final truth is that 570 DPS and 70k EHP tank is not a bad thing at all for a brawler and it is only one small gang fit available for new Drake.
Now you're just attempting to expand the argument to infinite proportions because I called you on your fits and lack of pvp knowledge.
[Alara IonStorm wrote:Sure explosive Hardener on a 5 low slot ship like you know what an enemy is going to be firing. 
I've been doing pvp longer than your character has been around. One thing to count on in PVP : If it's armor fire explosive. If it's shield fire EM. You yourself mentioned this:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Okay, so is the enemy using Armor because New Drake can use to Explosive Missiles. If they are using Shield you can use EM Missiles. I will give you a second to adjust your EFT back to the level playing field.
So now that we're agreed... go adjust your EFT to overloaded Explosive Hardener AND only explosive DPS. Go ahead.. I'll give you a second.
Presto!
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